Rivals 2011 Dynasty

    Rauloe
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    Post by Rauloe on Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:15 pm

    ehicks009 wrote:gg rauloe... so peev of mine about this game, why is there no mass sub option in user games? i lost my starting SS for 3 weeks to an injury with 2 minutes left in a blowout because i didnt get everyone switched out... ugh lame

    gg clark two conference championship games away from a possible title game meeting

    Fa sho a good game.. That Miami defense is fast like crazy. I thought was playing againt Ed Reed and Shawn Taylor out there.. I tried to get thru the game with no picks, but im looking forward to putting the FROSH in for the Upcoming season.... GG..



    NY_Eer
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    Post by NY_Eer on Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:14 am

    I tell you what...I'm really getting sick of all the guys that rush the ball 30 times a game. It has nothing to do w/ this dynasty in particular, but I've been playing a few online games to test a new strategy and its apparent the "new cheese" is to run the stretch and toss plays every...single...down. Its damn near impossible to not get your outside guys contained every time...w/out completely selling out. Then they end up throwing the exact same pass to the exact same WR every time. So, they have 35 rushes for however many yards, the QB is 4-5 for 205 yards, and one WR has 180 of those yards.

    For the most part I'd say that's sound strategy, but that isn't any more realistic than passing 50 times a game. No team outside of Navy...maybe WVU in the PW days...rushes that high % of their plays...and certainly not out of a pro formation. I've started to see it creep up in the dynasties too.

    I think there is a bias towards rushing like its more realistic to rush more...which is true based on past NCAAs where the cheese was to throw the ball all the time...and maybe to constantly run your QB to the sideline or 20 yards backwards...but its clear the new patch fucked up the run blocking to make it way too easy to run.

    Granted you have to call the right plays, but its clear a lot of times its not a #s games...its manipulating the AI. Cheese is probably a over used word given its a video game and will never be realistic, but I just felt like highlighting something I've been seeing.

    Is anyone else noticing this? I don't know if you would if you didn't troll online like I did. If I just stuck to dynasty it would take longer, but its there.

    I remember a quick discussion about it here when Clark brought it up re Breon. I sided w/ Breon then, because I didn't notice the trend, but now that I do I can see what he's saying.
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    Post by NY_Eer on Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:23 am

    Oh and I should also add they literally run the same 2-3 rushes...to the outside, which seems to be the key for these guys. Or to be more clear, they obviously pull some special video game stick move to create some weird ass animation and makes the HB lean at a 45 degree angle to the ground in order to defy physics and beat everyone to the sideline.

    Sometimes you don't see the physics defying animation, but I can tell they are still doing some special shit they found on youtube that basically equates to rocket catching the HB straight to the outside. I've seen more 80 yard untouched runs in the last month than in the last 4 years of playing NCAA.
    jhawk886
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    Post by jhawk886 on Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:46 am

    I haven't seen a play yet that is indefensible. There are some plays that are very hard to stop, especially if you're not in the right defense or whatever, but I haven't seen anything that is literally impossible to stop.
    urbanslegend05
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    Post by urbanslegend05 on Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:34 am

    Sucks trying to connect on EA late at night. Guess me and ho are going to try to play at 8 a.m.
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    Post by jhawk886 on Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:26 am

    Season awards have been updated. The current rankings do not reflect this weeks games. With two weeks worth of games remaining, the current teams in first place are:

    Rivals Award For Best All Around Team - Oklahoma

    Best Offensive Team - Florida

    Most Prolific Passer - Virginia Tech

    Best Running Team - Florida

    Best Defense - Alabama
    dclark44
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    Post by dclark44 on Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:20 am

    Well the best offense is going to meet the best defense in the upcoming weeks. Should be a great matchup. Go Crimson Tide!
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    Post by ehicks009 on Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:23 am

    NY_Eer wrote:Oh and I should also add they literally run the same 2-3 rushes...to the outside, which seems to be the key for these guys. Or to be more clear, they obviously pull some special video game stick move to create some weird ass animation and makes the HB lean at a 45 degree angle to the ground in order to defy physics and beat everyone to the sideline.

    Sometimes you don't see the physics defying animation, but I can tell they are still doing some special shit they found on youtube that basically equates to rocket catching the HB straight to the outside. I've seen more 80 yard untouched runs in the last month than in the last 4 years of playing NCAA.

    lol as opposed to people throwing the ball 50 times a game? And running the same out routes that DB's clearly can't cover in this game or throwing to a slot guy on a go route every time? I run the ball a lot, you know why? Because I can, if people keep lining up in the same positions and i can pop 6-7 yards a carry im going to keep running it, anyone who does otherwise is an idiot and any real coach that does otherwise is an idiot... that is all.
    splff3000
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    Post by splff3000 on Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:42 am

    Jhawk let's try 2PM. That'll give me plenty of time to get some sleep.
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    Post by urbanslegend05 on Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:12 am

    splff3000 wrote:Jhawk let's try 2PM. That'll give me plenty of time to get some sleep.

    That's gonna be out. Ho and I tried again at 8 a.m. and we still can't connect. I don't know what the fuck is going on, but we're not simming this game with both of us still in the thick of the title hunt. He's got to work at 9:30, so we're obviously not going to get to play until late tonight at least. If we can't connect tonight, I'm going to go to another buddies house to see if we can connect out there.
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    Post by Joker12 on Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:55 am

    The only guy I saw do that (what NYer was talking about) is Breon lol I'm sure clark can agree with that (throwing 4 times in the national championship game).

    But like yah hicks said if you were gaining 6-7 yards a carry on a person you'd be an idiot not to run the ball.
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    Post by dclark44 on Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:19 am

    Cool throwing 4 passes. Don't bring the fucker up
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    Post by NY_Eer on Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:41 pm

    ehicks009 wrote:

    lol as opposed to people throwing the ball 50 times a game? And running the same out routes that DB's clearly can't cover in this game or throwing to a slot guy on a go route every time? I run the ball a lot, you know why? Because I can, if people keep lining up in the same positions and i can pop 6-7 yards a carry im going to keep running it, anyone who does otherwise is an idiot and any real coach that does otherwise is an idiot... that is all.

    I wasn't referencing you...we haven't played in weeks. So, I'm not sure why you feel the need to be defensive. You seem to be referencing my throwing as part of your defense, but as you should know because you have played me that isn't my base philosophy. I was down 14 early on in our game so I obviously was taken out of my gameplan. Add to that I inherited a team where the best RB is rated a 79, who had proven he couldn't break a run longer than 3 yards. That certainly won't be my strategy once I get my freshman back in this next season. That is why I was trolling online was to try and prepare a new strategy based on what I expect to have. Back to the point...

    It is something I've seen and my point wasn't that is was cheese although frustrating, because you can tell in MOST...not all...cases that its more AI manipulation than game planning. Even if it weren't...and I'm getting a little off point here again...running the same 2-3 runs 90% of the game and the same 1-2 routes when you do happen to pass only 4-5 times a game is as unrealistic as the opposite. But for some reason not nearly as many people call that cheese as w/ the same concentration on the pass.

    And one other thing, I've seen that 45 degree angle rushing technique a few times now, and I try not to throw the word cheese out, but that is sketchy at best. Juking and spinning are techniques used in real life. So, I'm not against stick skills. But altering physics through stick skills to break your run to the outside is over the top...in my opinion.

    OS or another forum might be a better place for this discussion than here, because its not in direct reference to anyone on here, but I figured you guys were as up for a NCAA discussion as anyone.
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    Post by NY_Eer on Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:43 pm

    urbanslegend05 wrote:
    splff3000 wrote:Jhawk let's try 2PM. That'll give me plenty of time to get some sleep.

    That's gonna be out. Ho and I tried again at 8 a.m. and we still can't connect. I don't know what the fuck is going on, but we're not simming this game with both of us still in the thick of the title hunt. He's got to work at 9:30, so we're obviously not going to get to play until late tonight at least. If we can't connect tonight, I'm going to go to another buddies house to see if we can connect out there.

    Y'all know this already, but if one of you is in practice mode w/in the dynasty and then tries to jump directly into a game w/in that same dynasty you will not be able to connect. I forgot about that glitch earlier this year and it took me a few times to figure it out.
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    Post by NY_Eer on Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:57 pm

    Joker12 wrote:The only guy I saw do that (what NYer was talking about) is Breon lol I'm sure clark can agree with that (throwing 4 times in the national championship game).

    But like yah hicks said if you were gaining 6-7 yards a carry on a person you'd be an idiot not to run the ball.

    Last thing I'll say unless someone wants to continue, but again I only brought this up here as a general discussion. It was not in reference to anyone here specifically. If someone is doing that then its a coincidence. I actually never played Breon so I wouldn't know what he did.

    I guess its a discussion w/out a conclusion, because there are zero NFL teams that can average 6-7 yards a carry every down and there are few NCAA teams that try. Ga Tech, Navy, and RR WVU teams are recent teams...Oklahoma and Nebraska back in the day too. So, there aren't any real parallels, because those predominant rushing teams didn't get 6-7 yards every time. Maybe or probably someone would do it if they could, but since they can't there are no parallels.

    Also when you add the one WR catches 4 of only 5 balls consistently...that adds a bit to argument I think.

    All those teams have very unique schemes. No one runs the ball that much from the pro set. So, if you look strictly at run/pass ratio it isn't SIM football to have a 90/10 ratio. Most dynasties include mixing up of plays as a "Sim rule". I guess it would change the argument if you were rushing that many times by using 10 different rushes out of different sets. But that isn't what I have seen quite often. What I see is the same 2-3 rushes and the same goal of the RB rushing straight to the sideline.

    And I am not trying to alter anyone's philosophy...again not referencing anyone here. To each his own, and I 100% agree if you can't find a way to stop it that is on you. I guess my ultimate point is that its not enjoyable, even when you win sometimes, to feel as if the game isn't "SIM" however you decide to define that.
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    Post by ehicks009 on Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:29 pm

    Lol where did i reference anyone? I responded to your statement that is all. You ran the same crap routes all game and ran it just a handful of times with your RB the last time we played, I said it was lame but I could really care less. I think the reason most people don't attribute the same level of cheese with running the ball is because 1) running is naturally less prone to turnovers so in RL a number of teams will run the ball constantly if the other team can't stop it (even my boys at Miami have ran off 12-13 play drives without a pass) and 2) because in the game its a hell of a lot easier to stop someone that constantly tries to run outside than it is to stop 4-5 WR sets running the same out routes, crossing patterns and seam routes. If you shift your LB's or control a LB and play outside contain to force the RB to cut back you can stop a run. On the contrary in the passing game there can be upwards of 5 people running routes, you may be able to control a DB/S/LB to stop a crossing route or seam route but you can't stop EVERYONE, and there in lies the big difference.

    Just to be clear anyone that runs the same play all the time is lame and cheese. Personally I run out of about a dozen formations and have two different feature backs, I am happy to throw the ball but again if I can avg 6-7 yards a carry (one of my backs avg's about 5.5 and the other about 7.5) you're damn right I'm going to run a lot! I use Miami's playbook because thats the team I am, i suppose I could switch to a run heavy playbook but I don't feel it's necessary when you can just look at my stats and clearly see that I'm running a lot more and more effectively than passing, its not like it's a secret. That is all.
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    Post by splff3000 on Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:31 pm

    NY_Eer wrote:
    Joker12 wrote:The only guy I saw do that (what NYer was talking about) is Breon lol I'm sure clark can agree with that (throwing 4 times in the national championship game).

    But like yah hicks said if you were gaining 6-7 yards a carry on a person you'd be an idiot not to run the ball.

    Last thing I'll say unless someone wants to continue, but again I only brought this up here as a general discussion. It was not in reference to anyone here specifically. If someone is doing that then its a coincidence. I actually never played Breon so I wouldn't know what he did.

    I guess its a discussion w/out a conclusion, because there are zero NFL teams that can average 6-7 yards a carry every down and there are few NCAA teams that try. Ga Tech, Navy, and RR WVU teams are recent teams...Oklahoma and Nebraska back in the day too. So, there aren't any real parallels, because those predominant rushing teams didn't get 6-7 yards every time. Maybe or probably someone would do it if they could, but since they can't there are no parallels.

    Also when you add the one WR catches 4 of only 5 balls consistently...that adds a bit to argument I think.

    All those teams have very unique schemes. No one runs the ball that much from the pro set. So, if you look strictly at run/pass ratio it isn't SIM football to have a 90/10 ratio. Most dynasties include mixing up of plays as a "Sim rule". I guess it would change the argument if you were rushing that many times by using 10 different rushes out of different sets. But that isn't what I have seen quite often. What I see is the same 2-3 rushes and the same goal of the RB rushing straight to the sideline.

    And I am not trying to alter anyone's philosophy...again not referencing anyone here. To each his own, and I 100% agree if you can't find a way to stop it that is on you. I guess my ultimate point is that its not enjoyable, even when you win sometimes, to feel as if the game isn't "SIM" however you decide to define that.

    Ok, I'll jump in.

    For one I think the word sim and cheese are used waaaaaaay too much. I did a blog on OS called what is sim?

    http://www.operationsports.com/splff3000/blog/4669-what-is-sim/

    In the blog I raised the question of who determines what is sim? In USC's glory days under Pete Carroll, I watched them go a whole half one game and never punted. They went for it on 4th down every time no matter what the distance was and where they were on the field. If I do that in the game though, it's considered not sim (note: I don't go for it on 4th down that much I was just using that as an example). In the blog I talk about a high school football coach that doesn't believe in punting on 4th down because statistically it makes more sense to go for it on 4th down. People use the word sim too much. Here is part of that blog:

    If you've ever threw a pass in Madden or NCAA, you're unsim. The wind doesn't affect the ball and the trajectory isn't 100% accurate. If you've ever run the ball in Madden or NCAA, you're unsim. The blockers don't block according to their assignments. Hell, I don't think they even have assignments. Soon as your video game player steps on the field in madden or NCAA, you're unsim. The field's length and width is not accurately proportioned to the player models. In fact, soon as you hold the ball you're unsim. The ball is not accurately proportioned to the players hand. I could go on and on, but I'm not. So tell me this, why is the guy that calls the same play over and over considered an unsim player, when that could actually happen in real life, but the guy that throws the ball without the wind affecting his pass, which would never happen in real life, is not considered an unsim player. There's a double standard there.
    You see, you can't be sim, if you're not in a simulation. Now you could say you're less unsim or more sim like, but no one that plays both of these games is sim. By the way, contrary to what you may think after reading this blog, I am one of the most sim like players you'll ever play. Just so you know.

    THIS GAME ISN'T A SIMULATION OF COLLEGE FOOTBALL. YOU CAN'T PLAY SIM IN A GAME THAT'S NOT A SIMULATION. People use the word sim way to much.

    As for running the ball whole game being cheese I disagree. IMO cheese is something that you have no control over ie rocket catching. Its unstoppable. That's cheese. Running a toss sweep every play isn't IMO. Now if they're doing something fishy with the controls to make the retarded AI act even more retarded then that's when I say it's cheese, but as long as they are just running those toss sweeps it's fine. You have to stop it.

    That's the problem. Hardly anyone goes to practice mode and practice against certain plays on offense and defense. I can tell you that if I know a certain play is coming on offense, I can pick a play on defense that will stop it. Like jhawk said, there is no play that I have seen that can't be stopped. The problem is people pick the same handful of plays on defense and then when they can't stop an offensive play they think it's cheese. No, you just need to go to practice to learn how to stop it. Now of course the talent level of the team matters as well. If I look and see that all of your LB's have speed in the 60's and low 70's then you're damn right I'm gonna run outside .... a lot lol. My job as your opponent is not to make you feel comfortable with your playcalling . It's the opposite of that, so if the plays I run upset you then I'm doing my job lol. This is strictly talking about playcalling now. Like I said when ou do things to take advantage of the wonky AI then it becomes cheese but if you're just running plays I don't think it's cheese.

    Note: When I say "you", I'm not talking about you, NY_Eer. I'm talking about in terms of the user on offense and defense.
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    Post by NY_Eer on Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:33 pm

    ehicks009 wrote:Lol where did i reference anyone? I responded to your statement that is all. You ran the same crap routes all game and ran it just a handful of times with your RB the last time we played, I said it was lame but I could really care less. I think the reason most people don't attribute the same level of cheese with running the ball is because 1) running is naturally less prone to turnovers so in RL a number of teams will run the ball constantly if the other team can't stop it (even my boys at Miami have ran off 12-13 play drives without a pass) and 2) because in the game its a hell of a lot easier to stop someone that constantly tries to run outside than it is to stop 4-5 WR sets running the same out routes, crossing patterns and seam routes. If you shift your LB's or control a LB and play outside contain to force the RB to cut back you can stop a run. On the contrary in the passing game there can be upwards of 5 people running routes, you may be able to control a DB/S/LB to stop a crossing route or seam route but you can't stop EVERYONE, and there in lies the big difference.

    Just to be clear anyone that runs the same play all the time is lame and cheese. Personally I run out of about a dozen formations and have two different feature backs, I am happy to throw the ball but again if I can avg 6-7 yards a carry (one of my backs avg's about 5.5 and the other about 7.5) you're damn right I'm going to run a lot! I use Miami's playbook because thats the team I am, i suppose I could switch to a run heavy playbook but I don't feel it's necessary when you can just look at my stats and clearly see that I'm running a lot more and more effectively than passing, its not like it's a secret. That is all.

    Btw...this is a philosophical discussion...not a personal attack.

    Maybe I did the same thing I was accusing you of by taking offense to what I thought was a remark about my game play, which was similar to what you referenced in that particular game. That was not my intent. I shouldn't take offense to it, because I only started doing that after my comeback attempt vs Urban, being in the same situation against you, and then having a little run in doing it. Plus the whole shitty RB situation I'm in.

    I don't remember our game specifically, partly because I was on the 48th hour of a 2 day bender at that point, so I couldn't attest to what you do or don't do.

    I stand by my statement about the excessive running though. You may not play online games, but in past years I played a bunch and have stayed away this year for the most part. Every year you see the same BS pop up where 90% of the players follow the same strategy. Everyone crowdsources some way around the AI and you start seeing it pop up as other players face it, can't combat it, and then adopt it themselves.

    It actually changes throughout the year now due to the patches and the changes that result. This year its the outside run...and people are abusing it. I'm sure there are very honest guys, salt of the earth, that run it because that is the heart of their philosophy. So, be it. I bet if if you looked at people's stats from last year vs this year, most of these guys didn't run it as much last year. All of a sudden their game plan changed. Could it be because running outside using some combination of stick control and play call creates an overwhelming advantage...albeit not unstoppable? Who knows?

    All I know is what I see. And there are teams like Hawaii, Houston, SMU, Wyoming, etc that play 5 wide and pass 50 times a game. There aren't non-gimmick teams that run 50 times a game. So, if it doesn't happen in real life...that is my definition of non-SIM.
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    Post by pops21kid on Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:42 pm

    I would have to agree with splff. Honestly what is sim? I will go for it on 4th and short, mainly because I have problems kicking. And any coach I'm sure would do the same thing if team has problems.
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    Post by NY_Eer on Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:50 pm

    Jesus...I have no idea how I got roped into spending this amount of time and thought on this, but hell...its better than work and I have the luxury of not worrying about work so much right now. I enjoy the debate although when doing it on message boards or emails, it tends to get misconstrued.

    Splff...I didn't want to requote everything you wrote, but I 100% agree w/ the overuse of cheese. I mentioned that in an earlier post...it might be hard to remember it, since I've made 10 posts on this already. A better description would be non-SIM, which I definitely think is different than cheese although some people use it synonymously.

    You can't lab what I'm seeing. The CPU doesn't run this way. They don't sprint straight to the sideline like that. I've tried stopping this w/ a 4-2-5 and blitzing and containing my SSs, w/ a 4-4 spreading my LBs and audibling the OLBs to contain, rushing my CB, by moving my line AND moving all my LBs to the side I know they are running to...nothing. They don't break every run...but out of 3 downs they get a 10-20 yarder 90% of the time and eventually break an untouched 50-80 yarder 3-4 times a game. The fact a 95 speed CB w/ an angle can't seem to make contact also adds to the frustration. Its obvious that some are better at it than others, and some were good even before abusing it.

    So, this all stems from my frustration of course, but it still seems odd that an otherwise capable "coach" that understands the concepts can't seem to stop it...and on top of that you see the obvious non-SIMers start doing it, which is a big red flag for me.
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    Post by jhawk886 on Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:53 pm

    Given your connection problems with Blaze and now Ho Urban, I imagine you have an issue with connecting. If it doesn't work right away, try calling your ISP and see if they can walk you through some potential problems. If it still doesn't work, can you at least get your Workers game in. And Ho can you try to get a time set up with Clark, cuz you've been working on this game the past two nights, haven't had any luck, and then not even played Workers. If we can't advance in Workers by tomorrow night, then we probably won't advance until next Wednesday or Thursday. That might happen anyways, but it would be nice to have a shot at playing before then.
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    Post by NY_Eer on Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:56 pm

    pops21kid wrote:I would have to agree with splff. Honestly what is sim? I will go for it on 4th and short, mainly because I have problems kicking. And any coach I'm sure would do the same thing if team has problems.

    I didn't address that part of his post, but I 100% agree w/ the 4th down/Belichek philosophy thing. To me that actually is SIM, because people understand the #s and are implementing that. They had a segment on Real Sports or 60 Minutes w/ the Economist that wrote the book introducing that idea. That is a real life concept.

    w/ that said...I should understand this is a video game and get over the fact that its not SIM.

    Let me ask another question then to anyone. Forget rushing. If we all agree this is a video game and its not SIM, also agreeing that there need to be some rules to try and make it as realistic as possible...

    Why would scrambling w/ your QB be considered non-SIM? I understand not running directly to the sideline or dropping 20 yards back, but simply creating a running pocket to create better passing lanes. That actually happens in real life, but almost anyone would call that out on here. I've seen multiple guys do it to Kid on this forum.
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    Post by splff3000 on Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:57 pm

    Well, that's one reason why I only play people I know online. Very rarely would you just see me doing a ply now game. I've seen some of the craziest shit in play now games lol.

    As for what you're talking about, I haven't seen that, but then again, I haven't played a play now game since we started these OD's so they may have bot knew about it then. The only thing I suggest is that you play people that you know or that you know are legit. I understand your frustration. I used to go crazy when people first started rocket catching. I refused to do it because it was BS, but I hated that with a passion lol.
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    Post by splff3000 on Thu Oct 14, 2010 5:00 pm

    jhawk886 wrote:Given your connection problems with Blaze and now Ho Urban, I imagine you have an issue with connecting. If it doesn't work right away, try calling your ISP and see if they can walk you through some potential problems. If it still doesn't work, can you at least get your Workers game in. And Ho can you try to get a time set up with Clark, cuz you've been working on this game the past two nights, haven't had any luck, and then not even played Workers. If we can't advance in Workers by tomorrow night, then we probably won't advance until next Wednesday or Thursday. That might happen anyways, but it would be nice to have a shot at playing before then.

    You took the words right out of my mouth jhawk. I was just about to text Urban and ask him could he play his game in workers since he can't connect to Ho. Great minds think alike I guess lol.
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    Rivals 2011 Dynasty - Page 22 Empty Re: Rivals 2011 Dynasty

    Post by jhawk886 on Thu Oct 14, 2010 5:00 pm

    Splff, since we can't play our game, wanna do just a fun game of KU vs. Auburn? Or do you not wanna give away your tricks for wen we start our home and home in Workers lol.

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