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    Post by splff3000 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:43 am

    The purpose of this thread is for everyone to have a place to post there experiences with the current sliders and suggestions for change. This is not a thread to argue about which sliders set is better or argue about changes that need to be made. It is simply here so we can track of everyone's suggestions.
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    Post by Jaredlib on Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:28 am

    When yall play, take a look at the INT slider. I think at 50 its a bit crazy on both sides. See whatcha think
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    Post by getonmylevelho on Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:24 am

    My question is if you turn down the interceptions for the cpu, does that mean they are going to be dumber and not be in the position to make the INT? Or does that make the balls that are thrown right into their hands bounce off and hit the ground?

    Cuz I mean, if the ball is clearly thrown into a bad situation, then it deserves to be picked. I threw 7 interfuckingceptions last night in my workers game. But....if they would have dropped 3 or 4 of them I think that would be pretty lame. And I would have clearly won the game.
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    Post by Jaredlib on Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:51 am

    With the setting at 50 I see CPU DBs morph into INTs sometimes when it clearly is impossible to do so realistically.

    When I lowered the CPU setting to 40, I still would throw 2-3 picks against a good team, but they were on the bad throws, not on a screen pass where the LB moved 4 yards in 2 seconds.

    Also, I truly believe that Zehp is onto something with the heisman shit. I think we should use one of the highly rated AA slider sets on OS mostly for the sake of user games. The amount of weird ass plays I have seen in only 3 user games with the heisman setting (2 games I watched, 1 I played) is staggering.
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    Post by TheWeatherMan on Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:08 pm

    My official thoughts

    Coverage isn't the only thing that is messed up on Heisman, I have seen Jared's QB tackled before he could pitch a ball on toss, I have had my own toss play "intercepted" for a TD, and in this game numberous times I just had guys in my backfield before the handoff even took place. CPU controlled players on heisman are fucking whacked. I think this is proven now as I don't see this shit in online ranked matches. I think its time we change it until EA patches it up

    Just my suggestion mofos
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    Post by splff3000 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:19 pm

    getonmylevelho wrote:My question is if you turn down the interceptions for the cpu, does that mean they are going to be dumber and not be in the position to make the INT? Or does that make the balls that are thrown right into their hands bounce off and hit the ground?

    Cuz I mean, if the ball is clearly thrown into a bad situation, then it deserves to be picked. I threw 7 interfuckingceptions last night in my workers game. But....if they would have dropped 3 or 4 of them I think that would be pretty lame. And I would have clearly won the game.

    It's all about a balance. Right now, from what I can tell in my exhibition games I've played, cpu int is a bit too high. You need to lower it just a bit because if you lower it too far then the cpu will drop balls that come right to them. Jared might be right with it at about 40. All we're trying to do is stop the ridiculous ints. 40 might do it. I haven't tested any sliders so I'm just going by what jared said as a suggestion fo 40.
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    Post by TheWeatherMan on Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:22 pm

    Sorry Spliff, to clarify, I was talking about USER games in that post. Those problems I noticed were only in the OD user games so far, not in a ranked match online (which plays on AA).

    Heisman, by default, seems to really tinker with every CPU controlled players logic.

    So basically, I am suggesting AA sliders because our user games will play on AA default, like a ranked match, and a number of the sets on OS already proven to be tough.

    Here is what really need to happen tho.

    Someone, other than myself or J-Rag, need to test the deep passes on different coverages in AA and heisman and compare the differences. I am not talking about practice mode, I am talking using two controlles and just controlling offense while calling the plays on D.

    If you notice the difference too, we should switch to AA, if its equally as gay on both ends, then, we are just left with a shitty product from EA
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    Post by Jaredlib on Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:23 pm

    Hey spliff, just to add some more info for you.

    I also noticed in my many test games that with INT at 35, there were hardly any picks, I saw 1 pick in 3 games at one point, with it 40, it went back up to a normal amount, so the drop from 40 to 35 seems tremendous.
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    Post by splff3000 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:27 pm

    TheWeatherMan wrote:Sorry Spliff, to clarify, I was talking about USER games in that post. Those problems I noticed were only in the OD user games so far, not in a ranked match online (which plays on AA).

    Heisman, by default, seems to really tinker with every CPU controlled players logic.

    So basically, I am suggesting AA sliders because our user games will play on AA default, like a ranked match, and a number of the sets on OS already proven to be tough.

    Here is what really need to happen tho.

    Someone, other than myself or J-Rag, need to test the deep passes on different coverages in AA and heisman and compare the differences. I am not talking about practice mode, I am talking using two controlles and just controlling offense while calling the plays on D.

    If you notice the difference too, we should switch to AA, if its equally as gay on both ends, then, we are just left with a shitty product from EA

    I see what you're saying now. I'm down for anything as long as it don't fuck up the game. The trick would be getting the whole od to agree with you lol.

    Jaredlib wrote:Hey spliff, just to add some more info for you.

    I also noticed in my many test games that with INT at 35, there were hardly any picks, I saw 1 pick in 3 games at one point, with it 40, it went back up to a normal amount, so the drop from 40 to 35 seems tremendous.

    Yeah that seems about right. That's how it is with just about every slider. At some point of adjusting sliders you kinda move into another realm of the slider lol. Like you're changing the difficulty in that aspect of the game ala Madden. I'm assuming the drop from 40 - 35 takes it from Heisman to AA. Just a theory since I haven't touched the sliders this year.
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    Post by Jaredlib on Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:51 pm

    I am about to post a 30 second video, am going to upload it to youtube now.

    It has 5 plays, all ace spread vs nickel over storm brave, straight man coverage. the first two plays are on heisman, the last 3 on AA, watch the difference. this isn't the only area that is weird on heisman, there are blocking bugs and you see guys coming through untouched when they shouldnt, as well as polar opposite blocking animations, meaning, either a pancake or an instant shed, nothing in between.
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    Post by Jaredlib on Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:00 pm



    I hope this is enough to show what Zehp, and to a lesser extent, I have been talking bout.

    Heisman right now bjorks CPU player logic, it maxes out tendencies to one extreme or the other, SECelite describes it best when he said on heisman it got "stale," he knew what was going to happen every time he ran a route on a certain defense on AA you see varied tendencies and more accurate, true to ratings, play.

    This is especially apparent in user games, where we are seeing the deep pass become an unstoppable force if you dont always have a safety over the top. On AA, sometimes the corner stays with him, sometimes he gets beat, on heisman, 1 out of the 9 passes was incomplete.

    I know this is a small sample, but I hope it is enough. I will make a longer video if I have to, but I think there is clear evidence that we should switch to an AA slider set from OS, A.S.A.P., before more users play.


    Last edited by Jaredlib on Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by Jaredlib on Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:05 pm

    I think the main issue in this specific case is the aggressive heisman logic is programmed to jump the first break, but on a streak, there is no first break and he just backpedals until the guy is by him.

    On AA, the CB reacts to the streak, but makes himself susceptible to the hitch or curl, which gets picked off like crazy on heisman since the CB is always trailing the streaking WR
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    Post by Jaredlib on Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:10 pm

    I am very confident, if we change the setting right now, Hawk and Urb will notice a much cleaner playing game in their week 2 matchup
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    Post by Jaredlib on Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:22 pm

    Im about to upload two more vids. This time with 10 routes shown from 5 straight 4vert plays called against single man coverage. The first video is on AA the second on heisman, watch the differences in CB reactions...

    Tell me youre around spliff I know you gotta be seeing the same shit I am
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    Post by Jaredlib on Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:38 pm

    Here is the video of all AA streak routes against single man converage. Count how many times you see the CB just stand and let the guy run by him

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    Post by getonmylevelho on Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:51 pm

    Honestly dude, you are making a very good case for what you say. Video evidence is a lot better than a rant fa sho.
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    Post by KidIcarus27 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:59 pm

    i'm easy man.... I'm sold
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    Post by urbanslegend05 on Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:03 am

    My only concern is what do we do when the patch comes? Do we just play straight all-american or with sliders, bc we all know sliders don't cross over to user games.
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    Post by Jaredlib on Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:12 am

    Sorry Urb, I am confused by the question.

    Are you asking if I suggest we use default AA? I think that would be a bloodbath against the CPU. I was thinking just use one of the good sets on OS, SECelite or SilentNatures, and for user games it will be just a straight ranked match setup except with 8 min qtrs

    But, to be fair objective. This is obviously a small sample size of the game, I realize this. Who knows if AA has its own version of broken coverages. I just thought I would share what I have seen. Part of me fears we will make the change and notice just as many flaws and then I look like an idiot, but, on the same token, what is there to lose?
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    Post by dipsh on Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:33 am

    This makes a lot of sense. I think the reason I'm winning on heisman is because of the same over aggressive shit. Clearly I'm not in Rivals but I would vote for this in Workers as long as the sliders are semi close to default. No zero threshold. and no zero throw accuracy. Which slider set do you like Jared?
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    Post by Jaredlib on Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:38 am

    dipsh wrote:This makes a lot of sense. I think the reason I'm winning on heisman is because of the same over aggressive shit. Clearly I'm not in Rivals but I would vote for this in Workers as long as the sliders are semi close to default. No zero threshold. and no zero throw accuracy. Which slider set do you like Jared?

    Quite honestly, I have yet to actually play a full game with one of those sets yet. I have been practicing for the ODs and using our OD settings even if I dont like them.

    That being said, I have always had great results from SECelite or SilentNature
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    Post by splff3000 on Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:46 am

    You got me. I'll try this out tomorrow in practice mode to confirm what you're seeing. This could be huge if this is actually the case.
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    Post by dipsh on Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:52 am

    Jaredlib wrote:
    dipsh wrote:This makes a lot of sense. I think the reason I'm winning on heisman is because of the same over aggressive shit. Clearly I'm not in Rivals but I would vote for this in Workers as long as the sliders are semi close to default. No zero threshold. and no zero throw accuracy. Which slider set do you like Jared?

    Quite honestly, I have yet to actually play a full game with one of those sets yet. I have been practicing for the ODs and using our OD settings even if I dont like them.

    That being said, I have always had great results from SECelite or SilentNature

    I like that they both didn't just go 0 on threshold but some of the tweaks seem so far off default. 5 rush defense? 10 QB accuracy? Just seems like historically you see some crazy shit when you get that far from default. I like realistic stats and I love to lose games that I should lose to the CPU but I hate when I make a bad decision and the CPU is too dumbed down to pick it off or I roll out find a receiver and my QB throws it 10 yards over his head or the CPU RB is breaking countless tackles. That kind of shit just makes it no fun. Ya I'm beating CPU teams I shouldn't now but I am really having to call good plays and mix it up. If I lose because of dumb unrealistic shit it ruins the game for me.

    Are they doing a tuner or a patch maybe soon?
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    Post by dipsh on Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:58 am

    Do you think Oraeon is way off in the statistics in sliders thread? Would his be too easy?
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    Post by splff3000 on Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:17 pm

    Oh boy, Jared do I have some stuff for you. Ok I did a lil test of my own. I couldn't find the power cable to my camcorder( I rarely use that shit) yall are just gonna have to trust me or you can try it for your self in your own practice mode. Ok here we go.

    I did some tests to see what Jared is talking about. I'll tell yall my conclusion after I show you all the info. Here it is.

    For the purposes of these tests:

    - C = catch,

    - B = beat( the cb was beat, but the WR didn't catch the ball ie the cb knocked it out)

    - O = overthrown

    - T = tipped

    - I = intercepted

    The first test was with my no.2 WR(83 ovr) against my no. 2 CB (78 ovr). I ran streaks against straight man to man coverage and I threw out any pass that was thrown while the Qb was getting hit. The results were not good.

    Plays:

    1. C
    2. B
    3. C
    4. C
    5. C
    6. C
    7. C
    8. B
    9. T
    10. I

    As you can see that's very bad. I then switched the plays around and threw it to the other side with my no.1 WR(85 ovr) and no. 1 CB(85 ovr). The results were pretty much more of the same.

    Plays:

    1. C
    2. C
    3. C
    4. C
    5. C
    6. C
    7. C
    8. C
    9. B
    10. B

    At this point I was like wow! I switched my #2 WR over to the #1 slot and after a few passes realized it was the same thing. My no.2 WR is rated closely to my no. 1 though. I wanted to test a lil further so I put my 4th string WR(77 ovr) in at the #1 spot to see how he matches up with my no. 1 CB(85 ovr). Here are the results:

    Plays:

    1. C
    2. B
    3. C
    4. T
    5. I
    6. C
    7. I
    8. I
    9. I
    10. B

    This looks a lot better so it's obvious the ratings matter. Now I wanted to see what happen if that CB had help up top. So I called cover 2 man for the defense and this is the results:

    1. T
    2. I
    3. T
    4. T
    5. B
    6. C
    7. I
    8. I
    9. I
    10. T

    As you can see having help really, umm, helps lol. I was just about to calling it quits when I thought of something else to test. I put everything back to normal and swapped my 1st string QB(THP 87, THA 86) with my 3rd string QB( THP 85, THA 78). After seeing the results all I can say is wow!! Here they are:

    Plays:

    1. O
    2. C
    3. I
    4. I
    5. C
    6. O
    7. O
    8. I
    9. O
    10. O

    That's a pretty dramatic difference. It wasn't until this point that I realized that I had not seen one overthrow until I put my lower rated backup in. This goes back to what I was saying before....... QB acc slider is too high. You're tired of seeing deep balls get completed every where? Lower Qb acc.

    Here are some Qb Acc slider settings from OS:

    http://www.operationsports.com/forums/ncaa-football-sliders/494378-secelites-2012-all-american-slider-set-enjoy.html

    All – American threshold sliders
    User // CPU

    QB Accuracy – 10 // 40

    In testing, 10 user provides the greatest variance between talented and less talented QBs. My testing involved 3 QBs all of between 70 – 90 accuracy rating. I also took into account throw power with this as well. While I would like to see some more underthrown passes from QBs with lesser arms (5) this setting will require the user to use the pocket as well as proper timing during routes. This setting will penalize the user for forced or miss timed passing attempts. CPU QBA was increased to assist the CPU to make smarter throws. There were too many interceptions thrown by the CPU at the previous setting

    http://www.operationsports.com/forums/ncaa-football-sliders/493212-sns-all-american-sliders.html

    Custom AI (HUM-CPU)

    QB Accuracy: 10-45

    http://www.operationsports.com/forums/ncaa-football-sliders/494074-matt10s-heisman-sliders-zero-based.html

    HUM/CPU

    QBA 0/0

    There are a few more that have sliders at around 30-40, but no one has it above 40. How about this novel approach, we adjust sliders here, before we go to a whole new difficulty level or start saying something is an exploit.

    This is what yall wanted to do, well everyone except Jared. I told yall a bunch of times, you can not NOT adjust sliders. This is the bed you made. Sleep in it! No more shit about the deep ball is an exploit until yall adjust the fucking sliders.






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